Discussion:
Question about a young friend who might have been misdiagnosed - need some answers
(too old to reply)
Health Concerns
2007-03-18 19:10:27 UTC
Permalink
I am very worried about a young friend of mine. She is a 20 YO college
student who is very intelligent, well-spoken, and in many ways a super
achiever. If you looked at her resume of achievements, and if you hadn't
spent the last year with her and seen her do the things she had done,
you would never guess that she has so many problems.

The only people who really know her more than I do are her parents and
one really close friend who goes to school in the mid-atlantic area
and doesn't have much time to spend with her nowadays. She claims that
none of her friends who left her hometown to go to college don't come
come back anymore. But that might not be totally true.

She told me she had a very rough time in her senior year (2004-2005) of
high school and her freshman year of college Fall 2005 - Spring 2006. I
know her grades were not up to her usual standards her first semester,
and she apparently went out to many frat parties and drank with a fake ID.

Things got a little better the spring of her freshman year grade wise,
and she didn't seem to be doing as much drinking. She wanted to
transfer to another school up North where she thought she would fit in,
but they didn't accept her because of her Fall semester grades.

She got the rejection notice from the other school in the middle of a
6-week foreign study program in a country with a history of serious
depression and alcohol abuse. Her e-mails to me indicated she was out
at clubs every night and alcohol was sold everywhere (mixed drinks in
cans even sold in coffee shops and internet cafes). Once she got home,
she bragged how she was totally drunk the last two days of her stay, and
needed to be "poured" on the plane for the ride back to the US - and
they even had to confiscate some canned alcoholic beverages from her.

She said more than once that she was or had been depressed, going to
therapy, and had been taking anti-depressants. I didn't find out that
she was taking Prozac until right before Christmas 2006. I then found
out there are risks for consuming anything other than moderate amounts
of alcohol when taking Prozac.

I feel she is self-medicating with alcohol. She probably had 10
different sex partners (including me) from her senior year in high
school until the end of her Freshman year. She had at least one old sex
partner this past summer but probably more. Then she had at least 7
different sex partners this fall and spring semester (including me).
She would go out to bars two nights a week with her co-workers, and 3
nights a week to meet guys.

She would meet slightly older guys in bars who would buy her drinks,
dance with her, then take her back to her dorm room for sex. She became
a "bootie-call" girl - someone you didn't take out for a pleasant night
on the town - but you called up after you were done with your friends or
meeting other women you think you might have a chance for a long-term
relationship with.

I didn't find out about that until late October of this year. Then I
had to cut out our sexual relations and I think she felt somewhat
rejected by that. But what was I supposed to do - continue to have
sexual relations with someone who didn't care about my health?

She missed a great number of classes this past Fall Semester - a friend
of mine who was in her last class on MWF (2-3) said she missed 10 out of
45 sessions, and when she did show up she would often reak of tobacco
smoke and alcohol coming from out of her pores. She seemed to be
getting straightened out before the end of the Fall Semester, but what
she was really doing was changing her tactics. She set her sights on
either bartenders or bar owners to date and screw so she would have a
"house" bar to call her own - be able to go to it, dance and get drunk.

Now I am a few years older than she is. But at least she and I
concocted a story to explain the times we spent together. She called me
her "uncle" since she did have family about 90 miles away. We were of
the same race - both white. The bar owner she is going out with now is
not. She defends her choice to date him as her friends in the small
college town would accept him over me because he lives here and had lots
of friends her age in town. On his MySpace page he has only comments
from white chicks, one of whom calls him a "pimpdaddy".

That is because he is an alco-pimp - trying to make friends with tons of
young undergrads to come and spend money in his bar. If he can get
enough cute chicks to drink and act silly in the bar, he can make the
guys want to come there and spend money. But there is no way that her
friends in the dorms will accept her dating a short dumpy black man. I
don't accept the fact that this guy lies about his age, had been found
guilty of Assault and Battery (hit his own kid), beat his wife before he
divorced her, and then had to be sued for child support. On top of
that, his bar buddies are also scum - one was arrested and found guilty
of aiding and abetting in Assault with a Deadly weapon (held down a kid
while his friend shot him in the head). One of the danger signs of
someone who is manic or bi polar is if they date or have relationships
with abusive partners.

I care about her a great deal and it's very hard to walk away from
someone you have know and love and have felt that way about for over a
year. Yes - I said love. Not that I want to marry her.

I feel she was might have been misdiagnosed with depression when she
might have been manic all along. Or that with no monitoring of her meds
and no therapy down here she might have slipped over into being manic or
bi-polar. The local college counselors seem to feel that she needs
serious help - intervention, a full evaluation including therapy, med
evaluation, testing for nutrition, seeing if her BC pills are playing a
part in her mental health condition, etc.

I have no leverage to help her get treatement, so I called her father
and mother and they share my concerns over her behavior, but they don't
seem to want to lay down the law with her - tell her to stop drinking
and going to bars, and associating with abusive people, getting therapy
and hanging out with people who can help her to regain a postive outlook
on life.

So I wonder if anyone else has been in the same place my friend is in
now - and if you could share how you got out of it and regained a
healthy life?
acoftil
2007-03-19 19:01:43 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:10:27 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
I am very worried about a young friend of mine. She is a 20 YO college
student who is very intelligent, well-spoken, and in many ways a super
achiever. If you looked at her resume of achievements, and if you hadn't
spent the last year with her and seen her do the things she had done,
you would never guess that she has so many problems.
The only people who really know her more than I do are her parents and
one really close friend who goes to school in the mid-atlantic area
and doesn't have much time to spend with her nowadays. She claims that
none of her friends who left her hometown to go to college don't come
come back anymore. But that might not be totally true.
Her parents are legally responsible, if she can't take care of
herself. It's typical to loose most of your friends when you start
acting manic, as you describe.
Post by Health Concerns
She told me she had a very rough time in her senior year (2004-2005) of
high school and her freshman year of college Fall 2005 - Spring 2006. I
know her grades were not up to her usual standards her first semester,
and she apparently went out to many frat parties and drank with a fake ID.
That's the whisper in your ear that something isn't right.
Post by Health Concerns
Things got a little better the spring of her freshman year grade wise,
and she didn't seem to be doing as much drinking. She wanted to
transfer to another school up North where she thought she would fit in,
but they didn't accept her because of her Fall semester grades.
She got the rejection notice from the other school in the middle of a
6-week foreign study program in a country with a history of serious
depression and alcohol abuse. Her e-mails to me indicated she was out
at clubs every night and alcohol was sold everywhere (mixed drinks in
cans even sold in coffee shops and internet cafes). Once she got home,
she bragged how she was totally drunk the last two days of her stay, and
needed to be "poured" on the plane for the ride back to the US - and
they even had to confiscate some canned alcoholic beverages from her.
They won't let you on the plane, unless you act normal (no stumbling,
no drunk type walking or behavior). So, this was probably a great
exaggeration.

She placed herself in an environment where it was easy to self
medicate. IMO, she needs a detox before anything else. She can't get
past the alcohol, until and unless it is out of her system and I mean
emotionally.
Post by Health Concerns
She said more than once that she was or had been depressed, going to
therapy, and had been taking anti-depressants. I didn't find out that
she was taking Prozac until right before Christmas 2006. I then found
out there are risks for consuming anything other than moderate amounts
of alcohol when taking Prozac.
One should never drink when taking any form of psychotropic
medication. She is probably an alcoholic first. So, treat that and
see how things sort out.
Post by Health Concerns
I feel she is self-medicating with alcohol. She probably had 10
different sex partners (including me) from her senior year in high
school until the end of her Freshman year. She had at least one old sex
partner this past summer but probably more. Then she had at least 7
different sex partners this fall and spring semester (including me).
She would go out to bars two nights a week with her co-workers, and 3
nights a week to meet guys.
She is exhibiting typical risky behavior of someone with bipolar. It's
more dangerous than you think. This is how people get abducted into
the International slave market.

But, the behavior could be from something else and she needs a
therapist or psychiatrist to sort that out. She has some form of dual
disorder and there are special treatment centers for people like her.
Post by Health Concerns
She would meet slightly older guys in bars who would buy her drinks,
dance with her, then take her back to her dorm room for sex. She became
a "bootie-call" girl - someone you didn't take out for a pleasant night
on the town - but you called up after you were done with your friends or
meeting other women you think you might have a chance for a long-term
relationship with.
Let's face it, she's a prostitute. And you should not sleep with her
until and unless she stops the risky behavior AND gets tested for
STDs. Tell her so.
Post by Health Concerns
I didn't find out about that until late October of this year. Then I
had to cut out our sexual relations and I think she felt somewhat
rejected by that. But what was I supposed to do - continue to have
sexual relations with someone who didn't care about my health?
She doesn't care about anything but feeling better. You are talking
to the alcohol, not your friend. And good job on the nixed sex. :)
Post by Health Concerns
She missed a great number of classes this past Fall Semester - a friend
of mine who was in her last class on MWF (2-3) said she missed 10 out of
45 sessions, and when she did show up she would often reak of tobacco
smoke and alcohol coming from out of her pores. She seemed to be
getting straightened out before the end of the Fall Semester, but what
she was really doing was changing her tactics. She set her sights on
either bartenders or bar owners to date and screw so she would have a
"house" bar to call her own - be able to go to it, dance and get drunk.
Now I am a few years older than she is. But at least she and I
concocted a story to explain the times we spent together. She called me
her "uncle" since she did have family about 90 miles away. We were of
the same race - both white. The bar owner she is going out with now is
not. She defends her choice to date him as her friends in the small
college town would accept him over me because he lives here and had lots
of friends her age in town. On his MySpace page he has only comments
from white chicks, one of whom calls him a "pimpdaddy".
If you have to lie, then I wouldn't do it. Be honest, you might be
surprised. What's all this racial stuff? Are you in the USA?

She's a prostitute. Run, run as fast as you can. Don't get drawn
into that kind of lifestyle.

She's lying to you again (racial stuff).

Everything that comes out of her mouth is only in her eyes mind of
reality--it is her reality--not anyone else's.

You are talking to the drugs.

Only her parents can do an intervention, unless you want to spend a
long time trying to do it yourself (red tape and all).
Post by Health Concerns
That is because he is an alco-pimp - trying to make friends with tons of
young undergrads to come and spend money in his bar. If he can get
enough cute chicks to drink and act silly in the bar, he can make the
guys want to come there and spend money. But there is no way that her
friends in the dorms will accept her dating a short dumpy black man. I
don't accept the fact that this guy lies about his age, had been found
guilty of Assault and Battery (hit his own kid), beat his wife before he
divorced her, and then had to be sued for child support. On top of
that, his bar buddies are also scum - one was arrested and found guilty
of aiding and abetting in Assault with a Deadly weapon (held down a kid
while his friend shot him in the head). One of the danger signs of
someone who is manic or bi polar is if they date or have relationships
with abusive partners.
Nice guy, NOT. He will eventually do the same to your friend. And
she'll deny it for a long time.
Post by Health Concerns
I care about her a great deal and it's very hard to walk away from
someone you have know and love and have felt that way about for over a
year. Yes - I said love. Not that I want to marry her.
I feel she was might have been misdiagnosed with depression when she
might have been manic all along. Or that with no monitoring of her meds
and no therapy down here she might have slipped over into being manic or
bi-polar. The local college counselors seem to feel that she needs
serious help - intervention, a full evaluation including therapy, med
evaluation, testing for nutrition, seeing if her BC pills are playing a
part in her mental health condition, etc.
But, I'd want to get her off drugs and alcohol before a psych
evaluation. To me the evaluation is useless until you can talk to the
real person, not the drugs.
Post by Health Concerns
I have no leverage to help her get treatement, so I called her father
and mother and they share my concerns over her behavior, but they don't
seem to want to lay down the law with her - tell her to stop drinking
and going to bars, and associating with abusive people, getting therapy
and hanging out with people who can help her to regain a postive outlook
on life.
That's really sad. There are so many things they could do.

They can't lay down the law in that manner, because she can't just
stop drinking cold turkey. She needs a rehabilitation treatment
center (preferable in-patient). And they can facilitate an
intervention to at least place her on a 72 hour hold in a mental
facility for evaluation and probably a fast detox.
Post by Health Concerns
So I wonder if anyone else has been in the same place my friend is in
now - and if you could share how you got out of it and regained a
healthy life?
While I haven't been in the same place, a number of people here have
and I've seen a couple of friends in similar situation.

Wow! "regained a healthy life"

That's not really how things work for most of us--not all. You fight
for control every day of your life, regardless of medications,
meditations, and all the other things we do to stay in control.

You will need medications and therapy for life. You will need to
establish routines and systems that keep you calm, so you can
accomplish things. There will probably medication changes as you age.
You must avoid any triggers (in this case alcohol, bars, and acting
out sexually.

Some of us are able to work, some of us aren't.

You can't forget it, but can put it on a back burner.

No one can help her until she recognizes she needs help and asks for
it.

I hope your friend seeks help.

HTH, Nancy
Health Concerns
2007-03-21 00:50:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by acoftil
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:10:27 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
I am very worried about a young friend of mine. She is a 20 YO college
student who is very intelligent, well-spoken, and in many ways a super
achiever. If you looked at her resume of achievements, and if you hadn't
spent the last year with her and seen her do the things she had done,
you would never guess that she has so many problems.
The only people who really know her more than I do are her parents and
one really close friend who goes to school in the mid-atlantic area
and doesn't have much time to spend with her nowadays. She claims that
none of her friends who left her hometown to go to college don't come
come back anymore. But that might not be totally true.
Her parents are legally responsible, if she can't take care of
herself. It's typical to loose most of your friends when you start
acting manic, as you describe.
Not really sure she had many friends. But I am only getting her side so
far. She told me that she stayed home for New Year's Eve, and she was
all upset about it. However, her dad told me that she got all dressed
up for a party, went to it, then came back home in tears. So I don't
really know what happened.
Post by acoftil
Post by Health Concerns
She told me she had a very rough time in her senior year (2004-2005) of
high school and her freshman year of college Fall 2005 - Spring 2006. I
know her grades were not up to her usual standards her first semester,
and she apparently went out to many frat parties and drank with a fake ID.
That's the whisper in your ear that something isn't right.
I saw it as something that she needed to get it out of her system. Of
course I was wrong about this, but I didn't have the proper perspective.
Post by acoftil
Post by Health Concerns
Things got a little better the spring of her freshman year grade wise,
and she didn't seem to be doing as much drinking. She wanted to
transfer to another school up North where she thought she would fit in,
but they didn't accept her because of her Fall semester grades.
She got the rejection notice from the other school in the middle of a
6-week foreign study program in a country with a history of serious
depression and alcohol abuse. Her e-mails to me indicated she was out
at clubs every night and alcohol was sold everywhere (mixed drinks in
cans even sold in coffee shops and internet cafes). Once she got home,
she bragged how she was totally drunk the last two days of her stay, and
needed to be "poured" on the plane for the ride back to the US - and
they even had to confiscate some canned alcoholic beverages from her.
They won't let you on the plane, unless you act normal (no stumbling,
no drunk type walking or behavior). So, this was probably a great
exaggeration.
She was drunk, but she was getting on an American carrier plane in
Russia. Do you know how many people are drunk in Russia on a regular
daily basis?
Post by acoftil
She placed herself in an environment where it was easy to self
medicate. IMO, she needs a detox before anything else. She can't get
past the alcohol, until and unless it is out of her system and I mean
emotionally.
Post by Health Concerns
She said more than once that she was or had been depressed, going to
therapy, and had been taking anti-depressants. I didn't find out that
she was taking Prozac until right before Christmas 2006. I then found
out there are risks for consuming anything other than moderate amounts
of alcohol when taking Prozac.
One should never drink when taking any form of psychotropic
medication. She is probably an alcoholic first. So, treat that and
see how things sort out.
Not sure she was an alcoholic first - she supposedly got depressed in
her Senior year of HS when she lived at home. Not sure how she got
enough booze to turn into an alcoholic, but then again - her younger
brother claims to drink alot and he still lives at home.
Post by acoftil
Post by Health Concerns
I feel she is self-medicating with alcohol. She probably had 10
different sex partners (including me) from her senior year in high
school until the end of her Freshman year. She had at least one old sex
partner this past summer but probably more. Then she had at least 7
different sex partners this fall and spring semester (including me).
She would go out to bars two nights a week with her co-workers, and 3
nights a week to meet guys.
She is exhibiting typical risky behavior of someone with bipolar. It's
more dangerous than you think. This is how people get abducted into
the International slave market.
That is what I was worried about with her being over in Russia last
summer. I also worried that she could go out in her local college town
and never come back. That is why I had her parent's contact numbers
just in case.
Post by acoftil
But, the behavior could be from something else and she needs a
therapist or psychiatrist to sort that out. She has some form of dual
disorder and there are special treatment centers for people like her.
I do hope that she gets the right sort of help/
Post by acoftil
Post by Health Concerns
She would meet slightly older guys in bars who would buy her drinks,
dance with her, then take her back to her dorm room for sex. She became
a "bootie-call" girl - someone you didn't take out for a pleasant night
on the town - but you called up after you were done with your friends or
meeting other women you think you might have a chance for a long-term
relationship with.
Let's face it, she's a prostitute. And you should not sleep with her
until and unless she stops the risky behavior AND gets tested for
STDs. Tell her so.
I did tell her that in the Fall - she never got tested so I never had
sex with her. I did sleep in the same bed with her. She seemed to get
a great deal of comfort out of snuggling with someone who she claimed
made her feel safe. I guess she gets that from the lastest guy she is
with. I have never hit a woman or a child, but he has done both, which
is why I worry about her. He is an abusive asshole.
Post by acoftil
Post by Health Concerns
I didn't find out about that until late October of this year. Then I
had to cut out our sexual relations and I think she felt somewhat
rejected by that. But what was I supposed to do - continue to have
sexual relations with someone who didn't care about my health?
She doesn't care about anything but feeling better. You are talking
to the alcohol, not your friend. And good job on the nixed sex. :)
Post by Health Concerns
She missed a great number of classes this past Fall Semester - a friend
of mine who was in her last class on MWF (2-3) said she missed 10 out of
45 sessions, and when she did show up she would often reak of tobacco
smoke and alcohol coming from out of her pores. She seemed to be
getting straightened out before the end of the Fall Semester, but what
she was really doing was changing her tactics. She set her sights on
either bartenders or bar owners to date and screw so she would have a
"house" bar to call her own - be able to go to it, dance and get drunk.
Now I am a few years older than she is. But at least she and I
concocted a story to explain the times we spent together. She called me
her "uncle" since she did have family about 90 miles away. We were of
the same race - both white. The bar owner she is going out with now is
not. She defends her choice to date him as her friends in the small
college town would accept him over me because he lives here and had lots
of friends her age in town. On his MySpace page he has only comments
from white chicks, one of whom calls him a "pimpdaddy".
If you have to lie, then I wouldn't do it. Be honest, you might be
surprised. What's all this racial stuff? Are you in the USA?
Yes - in the USA. Where are you? She goes to a liberal college down
South, and there are still some racial issues that you can get caught up
on. She is dating a short, fat, dumpy black guy who acts like a
pimpdaddy. Do you not think that her friends and classmates will notice
this and think that something is a little out of wack?
Post by acoftil
She's a prostitute. Run, run as fast as you can. Don't get drawn
into that kind of lifestyle.
She's lying to you again (racial stuff).
What do you mean she is lying? I have met the guy and seen his profile.
Post by acoftil
Everything that comes out of her mouth is only in her eyes mind of
reality--it is her reality--not anyone else's.
You are talking to the drugs.
Only her parents can do an intervention, unless you want to spend a
long time trying to do it yourself (red tape and all).
Post by Health Concerns
That is because he is an alco-pimp - trying to make friends with tons of
young undergrads to come and spend money in his bar. If he can get
enough cute chicks to drink and act silly in the bar, he can make the
guys want to come there and spend money. But there is no way that her
friends in the dorms will accept her dating a short dumpy black man. I
don't accept the fact that this guy lies about his age, had been found
guilty of Assault and Battery (hit his own kid), beat his wife before he
divorced her, and then had to be sued for child support. On top of
that, his bar buddies are also scum - one was arrested and found guilty
of aiding and abetting in Assault with a Deadly weapon (held down a kid
while his friend shot him in the head). One of the danger signs of
someone who is manic or bi polar is if they date or have relationships
with abusive partners.
Nice guy, NOT. He will eventually do the same to your friend. And
she'll deny it for a long time.
Yes - I know that. That is my biggest concern.
Post by acoftil
Post by Health Concerns
I care about her a great deal and it's very hard to walk away from
someone you have know and love and have felt that way about for over a
year. Yes - I said love. Not that I want to marry her.
I feel she was might have been misdiagnosed with depression when she
might have been manic all along. Or that with no monitoring of her meds
and no therapy down here she might have slipped over into being manic or
bi-polar. The local college counselors seem to feel that she needs
serious help - intervention, a full evaluation including therapy, med
evaluation, testing for nutrition, seeing if her BC pills are playing a
part in her mental health condition, etc.
But, I'd want to get her off drugs and alcohol before a psych
evaluation. To me the evaluation is useless until you can talk to the
real person, not the drugs.
Well her parents are trying to do just that.
Post by acoftil
Post by Health Concerns
I have no leverage to help her get treatement, so I called her father
and mother and they share my concerns over her behavior, but they don't
seem to want to lay down the law with her - tell her to stop drinking
and going to bars, and associating with abusive people, getting therapy
and hanging out with people who can help her to regain a postive outlook
on life.
That's really sad. There are so many things they could do.
They can't lay down the law in that manner, because she can't just
stop drinking cold turkey. She needs a rehabilitation treatment
center (preferable in-patient). And they can facilitate an
intervention to at least place her on a 72 hour hold in a mental
facility for evaluation and probably a fast detox.
Post by Health Concerns
So I wonder if anyone else has been in the same place my friend is in
now - and if you could share how you got out of it and regained a
healthy life?
While I haven't been in the same place, a number of people here have
and I've seen a couple of friends in similar situation.
Wow! "regained a healthy life"
That's not really how things work for most of us--not all. You fight
for control every day of your life, regardless of medications,
meditations, and all the other things we do to stay in control.
I know this. I don't think her parents do. They think that one day she
will be all better and have a great job and not have to worry about her
mental health problems.
Post by acoftil
You will need medications and therapy for life. You will need to
establish routines and systems that keep you calm, so you can
accomplish things. There will probably medication changes as you age.
You must avoid any triggers (in this case alcohol, bars, and acting
out sexually.
Yes - I do know this also. It's very hard to do this in college towns
in the USA - they are all about binge drinking.
Post by acoftil
Some of us are able to work, some of us aren't.
You can't forget it, but can put it on a back burner.
No one can help her until she recognizes she needs help and asks for
it.
I hope your friend seeks help.
HTH, Nancy
Thanks for the advice.
Nancy
2007-03-21 17:41:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Health Concerns
Post by acoftil
Her parents are legally responsible, if she can't take care of
herself. It's typical to loose most of your friends when you start
acting manic, as you describe.
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Not really sure she had many friends. But I am only getting her side so
far. She told me that she stayed home for New Year's Eve, and she was
all upset about it. However, her dad told me that she got all dressed
up for a party, went to it, then came back home in tears. So I don't
really know what happened.
When I read this, my mind immediately went to a worse case scenario, but I'm
going to mention it. Could she have been raped?

It could have been anything: lost a piece of jewelry, got into a fight of some
kind, got snubbed at the party, got told off at the party and so on and so
forth.

Don't believe her, because it is most likely that she is making up stories to
hide her grandiose behavior.

Nancy
Nancy
2007-03-21 17:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Health Concerns
Post by acoftil
They won't let you on the plane, unless you act normal (no stumbling,
no drunk type walking or behavior). So, this was probably a great
exaggeration.
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
She was drunk, but she was getting on an American carrier plane in
Russia. Do you know how many people are drunk in Russia on a regular
daily basis?
Sadly I am fully aware. Being of 50% Russian ancestry, I feel that Russia gives
their people a poor reputation. I hope she was NOT in Moscow. That city is
ugly, dirty and the mafia and cops are everywhere. My 70+ year old parents were
almost arrested and abducted for taking pictures. Dad was taking pictures in a
square where pictures were allowed, they gave them trouble anyway.

The only reason they did not get in trouble was they belonged to a tour (a very
high end tour). The tour company intervened.

Most other cities are not like that at all. My folks loved St. Petersburg.

Nancy
Nancy
2007-03-21 17:55:40 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Not sure she was an alcoholic first - she supposedly got depressed in
her Senior year of HS when she lived at home. Not sure how she got
enough booze to turn into an alcoholic, but then again - her younger
brother claims to drink alot and he still lives at home.
Being an alcoholic has nothing to do with how much you drink.

Have you seen the brochures that ask a bunch of questions to determine whether
or not you have an alcohol problem?

Is alcohol interfering in her life, life goals, etc.

For your friend, the answer is "yes"

Are you able to function fully in life (take care of yourself)?

Her answer is "no"

That isn't exactly right, but I think you get the picture.

Ok, cat distracted me, so I looked it up:
http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/en_is_aa_for_you.cfm?PageID=71

That way you get the official questions. :)

Nancy
Nancy
2007-03-21 18:01:42 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Post by acoftil
She is exhibiting typical risky behavior of someone with bipolar. It's
more dangerous than you think. This is how people get abducted into
the International slave market.
That is what I was worried about with her being over in Russia last
summer. I also worried that she could go out in her local college town
and never come back. That is why I had her parent's contact numbers
just in case.
I need to be really honest with you. Please understand I'm trying to help out.

You would be much better off forgetting her and removing her from your life, or
at least distance yourself from her.

You have no authority when it comes to her health. All you can do is spin your
wheels on the guilt wheel of life, jump to conclusions and stress yourself out.

Live YOUR life. Concentrate on YOU and then maybe you can open a crack up to be
her friend again.

If you must remain in contact, limit face to face visits to once/month or less.
Learn all you can about bipolar. Read some of our archives and the web sites
posted in the FAQs. And just be there for her with no judgments.

HTH,
Nancy
Nancy
2007-03-21 18:04:26 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Post by acoftil
But, the behavior could be from something else and she needs a
therapist or psychiatrist to sort that out. She has some form of dual
disorder and there are special treatment centers for people like her.
I do hope that she gets the right sort of help/
Don't count on it. Most of those programs are either for research or they are
very expensive.

I should know. I spent a year spinning my wheels on my Uncle only to have him
molest my niece. Now he has a dual disorder: pedophilia and alcohol. We are no
longer in contact and he is NEVER invited to family gathering.

Nancy
Nancy
2007-03-21 18:06:26 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
I did tell her that in the Fall - she never got tested so I never had
sex with her. I did sleep in the same bed with her. She seemed to get
a great deal of comfort out of snuggling with someone who she claimed
made her feel safe. I guess she gets that from the lastest guy she is
with. I have never hit a woman or a child, but he has done both, which
is why I worry about her. He is an abusive asshole.
That tells me she has no self esteem.

You could always trick her and go out, but end up at an AA meeting. <weg>

Nancy
Nancy
2007-03-21 18:13:25 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Post by acoftil
If you have to lie, then I wouldn't do it. Be honest, you might be
surprised. What's all this racial stuff? Are you in the USA?
Yes - in the USA. Where are you? She goes to a liberal college down
South, and there are still some racial issues that you can get caught up
on. She is dating a short, fat, dumpy black guy who acts like a
pimpdaddy. Do you not think that her friends and classmates will notice
this and think that something is a little out of wack?
I'm in California, but my ISP gives it away, because Surewest only provides
service to northern California and parts of Nevada and Arizona.

I understand the race thing, I don't like it, but I understand it. An old
plantation town, eh?

What her friends and acquaintances notice depends on when they met her. If a
person knew her before her troubles, they should notice a change in behavior.

If a person met her during a transition, that person may or may not notice a
change in her behavior.

If a person met her yesterday, that person would only know her from yesterday
and probably would not notice a change.

I'd give 50/50 odds of either way.

Nancy
On the Road to Damascus
2007-03-22 19:00:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nancy
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Post by acoftil
If you have to lie, then I wouldn't do it. Be honest, you might be
surprised. What's all this racial stuff? Are you in the USA?
Yes - in the USA. Where are you? She goes to a liberal college down
South, and there are still some racial issues that you can get caught up
on. She is dating a short, fat, dumpy black guy who acts like a
pimpdaddy. Do you not think that her friends and classmates will notice
this and think that something is a little out of wack?
I'm in California, but my ISP gives it away, because Surewest only provides
service to northern California and parts of Nevada and Arizona.
I understand the race thing, I don't like it, but I understand it. An old
plantation town, eh?
All PC issues aside, it is appropriate in this circumstance to mention
race, IMO. Same race joinings have enough problems, but the reality is
that when you see a black/white couple there is a much higher
probability of some underlying pathology. I'm sure in different parts
of the country this is true to greater or lesser degrees, but it is by
no means limited to the south, and it is a product of this country's
racial history.

To break it down to simple terms, you have a situation where, for
example, a white girl sees a black man ONLY because he is black, not
because of who he is, and not because she is attracted to black men.
It's a case of the boy from the wrong side of the tracks taken to
extremes. And in this case you have to suspect that the situation goes
beyond wanting to strike out in some way against the parents...there
is a very good chance that in a typical alcoholic fashion she is doing
this because on some level she feels it is degrading, and she wishes
to harm herself.

On the flip side, many black men see having a white girl as a status
symbol, and any white girl will do. In that context the "pimp daddy"
observation was important.

Her immediate problem is alcoholism. While she may in fact be bipolar,
the original poster has not described a single symptom that can not be
attributed to that downward spiral of self destruction. And your
advice is correct...he needs to distance himself from her. If she one
day reaches out her hand for help he can be there, but for now she
will only hurt and use everyone around her.
Post by Nancy
What her friends and acquaintances notice depends on when they met her. If a
person knew her before her troubles, they should notice a change in behavior.
If a person met her during a transition, that person may or may not notice a
change in her behavior.
If a person met her yesterday, that person would only know her from yesterday
and probably would not notice a change.
I'd give 50/50 odds of either way.
Nancy
Nancy
2007-03-23 02:01:54 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:00:57 -0500, On the Road to Damascus
Post by On the Road to Damascus
All PC issues aside, it is appropriate in this circumstance to mention
race, IMO. Same race joinings have enough problems, but the reality is
that when you see a black/white couple there is a much higher
probability of some underlying pathology. I'm sure in different parts
of the country this is true to greater or lesser degrees, but it is by
no means limited to the south, and it is a product of this country's
racial history.
The OP stated she was in a small town in the South. The "?" means I was asking
a question, not making a statement.

Nancy
Health Concerns
2007-03-24 01:16:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by On the Road to Damascus
Post by Nancy
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Post by acoftil
If you have to lie, then I wouldn't do it. Be honest, you might be
surprised. What's all this racial stuff? Are you in the USA?
Yes - in the USA. Where are you? She goes to a liberal college down
South, and there are still some racial issues that you can get caught up
on. She is dating a short, fat, dumpy black guy who acts like a
pimpdaddy. Do you not think that her friends and classmates will notice
this and think that something is a little out of wack?
I'm in California, but my ISP gives it away, because Surewest only provides
service to northern California and parts of Nevada and Arizona.
I understand the race thing, I don't like it, but I understand it. An old
plantation town, eh?
All PC issues aside, it is appropriate in this circumstance to mention
race, IMO. Same race joinings have enough problems, but the reality is
that when you see a black/white couple there is a much higher
probability of some underlying pathology. I'm sure in different parts
of the country this is true to greater or lesser degrees, but it is by
no means limited to the south, and it is a product of this country's
racial history.
Yes - from what I have read, there is an underlying pathology for let's
say a young white girl only dating black men, and black men only having
emotionless sexual hookups with white women.

There is a lot of absentee father issues with black males, who end up
repeating the cycle with their own kids. They just seem to want to have
as much sex as possible, then not deal with the children that result -
until they get old enough to go hang out with and hit on other girls
together.

Of course, the black men want to have nothing to do with their own
daughters, because they really don't see women other than their own
mothers as anything other than someone to screw.

Rap culture seems to celebrate the whole racist misogynistic,
bootie-shaking culture. And now rich white men make billions off
selling it to young white kids as the latest cool thing.
Post by On the Road to Damascus
To break it down to simple terms, you have a situation where, for
example, a white girl sees a black man ONLY because he is black, not
because of who he is, and not because she is attracted to black men.
It's a case of the boy from the wrong side of the tracks taken to
extremes. And in this case you have to suspect that the situation goes
beyond wanting to strike out in some way against the parents...there
is a very good chance that in a typical alcoholic fashion she is doing
this because on some level she feels it is degrading, and she wishes
to harm herself.
On the flip side, many black men see having a white girl as a status
symbol, and any white girl will do. In that context the "pimp daddy"
observation was important.
Her immediate problem is alcoholism. While she may in fact be bipolar,
the original poster has not described a single symptom that can not be
attributed to that downward spiral of self destruction. And your
advice is correct...he needs to distance himself from her. If she one
day reaches out her hand for help he can be there, but for now she
will only hurt and use everyone around her.
I agree - she should be getting off the sauce ASAP. One of the problems
is that the colleges are as much at fault as anyone else is. They
should be having a zero tolerance policy and lock up anyone who sells or
provides alcohol to someone who is underage.

The alcohol industry makes about half it's money selling to adults with
drinking problems and all underage drinkers. So don't buy into the
bullshit about how the alcohol industry encourages legal & moderate
drinking. They wouldn't be making half their profits if it wasn't for
alcoholics and underage kids.
Post by On the Road to Damascus
Post by Nancy
What her friends and acquaintances notice depends on when they met her. If a
person knew her before her troubles, they should notice a change in behavior.
The same people don't see her all that often. I was about the only
person last year and the first half of this year who saw her often
enough to know what was going on. I think it was a strategy on her part
to not let anyone get close enough to know or see that she had these
problems.

And of course now she is lying to the abusive black male about many
things so that she can keep up the facade to have access to the alcohol
that he can provide her.
Post by On the Road to Damascus
Post by Nancy
If a person met her during a transition, that person may or may not notice a
change in her behavior.
If a person met her yesterday, that person would only know her from yesterday
and probably would not notice a change.
I'd give 50/50 odds of either way.
Nancy
Nancy
2007-03-24 15:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Heads UP Moderators!

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:16:00 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Yes - from what I have read, there is an underlying pathology for let's
say a young white girl only dating black men, and black men only having
emotionless sexual hookups with white women.
(cross post deleted)

I'm sorry this conversation just crossed the line. If you are going to make
racist stereotypical statements, at least post some study to back up your
intolerant words. Otherwise, take this conversation elsewhere.

Nancy Leitner
administrator/creator/moderator
alt.med.fibromyalgia.recovery.info (moderated)
alt.support.depression.manic.moderated

to email me from news groups, just remove the Z.
On the Road to Damascus
2007-03-26 05:22:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nancy
Heads UP Moderators!
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:16:00 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Yes - from what I have read, there is an underlying pathology for let's
say a young white girl only dating black men, and black men only having
emotionless sexual hookups with white women.
(cross post deleted)
I'm sorry this conversation just crossed the line. If you are going to make
racist stereotypical statements, at least post some study to back up your
intolerant words. Otherwise, take this conversation elsewhere.
I don't read any intolerance into what he said. No one is saying that
healthy black/white relationships, where the people involved are
attracted to each other <i>for who they are</i> instead of for what
color they are, do not exist. The sad reality is that due to the
pervasive racial climate in this country such a pathological
relationship is far too common, especially in a case like this where
serious alcohol abuse is taking place. Sad also, that many cases of
honest attraction no doubt lead nowhere because of perceived
difficulties/societal disapproval due to that same climate.
Post by Nancy
Nancy Leitner
administrator/creator/moderator
alt.med.fibromyalgia.recovery.info (moderated)
alt.support.depression.manic.moderated
to email me from news groups, just remove the Z.
Nancy
2007-03-26 17:49:32 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 00:22:01 -0500, On the Road to Damascus
Post by On the Road to Damascus
I don't read any intolerance into what he said. No one is saying that
healthy black/white relationships, where the people involved are
attracted to each other <i>for who they are</i> instead of for what
color they are, do not exist. The sad reality is that due to the
pervasive racial climate in this country such a pathological
relationship is far too common, especially in a case like this where
serious alcohol abuse is taking place. Sad also, that many cases of
honest attraction no doubt lead nowhere because of perceived
difficulties/societal disapproval due to that same climate.
One of my moderators agreed with you. So, I'm not going to moderate this
thread, someone else will call it.

Thanks for letting me know. I can't change what I'm unaware of. :)

Nancy

Nancy
2007-03-21 18:15:20 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
<***@earthlink.net> etched permanently into the ether:

Nancy
Post by acoftil
She's lying to you again (racial stuff).
What do you mean she is lying? I have met the guy and seen his profile.
Let me clarify. She told you this pimpdaddy was just a boyfriend--that's the
lie I was talking about. He's her pimp. I've seen it a million times.

Nancy
Nancy
2007-03-21 18:20:27 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Post by acoftil
But, I'd want to get her off drugs and alcohol before a psych
evaluation. To me the evaluation is useless until you can talk to the
real person, not the drugs.
Well her parents are trying to do just that.
IMNSHO, They aren't trying hard enough. Find a facility that will work with you
and use it. Or if no money, go to the county alcohol rehabilitation center
(often called Detox). You have to do more work that way.

You may be able to participate in the intervention, because you need people
around who are all saying the same thing.

Watch the show, "Intervention" on A&E and see an intervention in action. One
episode usually does it. :)

Nancy
Nancy
2007-03-21 18:23:00 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Post by acoftil
That's not really how things work for most of us--not all. You fight
for control every day of your life, regardless of medications,
meditations, and all the other things we do to stay in control.
I know this. I don't think her parents do. They think that one day she
will be all better and have a great job and not have to worry about her
mental health problems.
That's what my parents thought. Kids didn't get depression in those days, it
was unheard of, so no one diagnosed me until much later in life.

I disappointed my parents when I started getting worse.

Tough Petutys

Nancy
Nancy
2007-03-21 18:25:34 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Yes - I do know this also. It's very hard to do this in college towns
in the USA - they are all about binge drinking.
Around here, the schools are cracking down on alcohol and drug use. I think
they are even drug testing as part of the entrance process--but don't really
know.

Chico State with the reputation of the biggest party school in California and
possibly the USA is now drug and alcohol free. They did it in one session.

They have a zero tolerance policy.

Nancy
Nancy
2007-03-21 18:26:01 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
Post by Health Concerns
Thanks for the advice.
You are very welcome!

Nancy
Loading...