Discussion:
Ethical Questions about BiPolar Relative
(too old to reply)
Kelly
2006-07-18 00:45:02 UTC
Permalink
I have some ethical questions about the correct thing to do in relation
to a bipolar relative.

First, some background:

A relative of mine, let's call him Fred, who lives in my town, was
hospitalized for a manic episode about two years ago. Since then he has
done well on medication, re-established friendships and his marriage,
and resumed a professional career.

Recently, another relative, let's call him Joe, visited my town and made
arrangements to get together with me and my mother. A few days later,
Fred sent me an angry email accusing me of deliberately excluding him
not only from dinner with Joe and my mother but from past family events.

I emailed back and told him that I was sorry he felt left out, but Joe
was the one who had set things up and he should talk to Joe about it.

Fred then wrote that he believed I was in a position to include him at
family gatherings and in the future I should do so. (I don't know why he
thinks this, maybe because I usually make reservations, but that's no
reason.) The letter also accused me of never doing anything for him when
he did x, y and z for me.

I emailed Fred again telling him that I didn't feel it was my place to
tell someone who to invite where, that he was putting me in the middle
of his relationships with other people and it wasn't fair. I also told
him that his accusations were unfair and untrue and gave specific
examples of x, y and z I have done for him.

A few more emails were exchanged in which Fred was angry and insistent
and I tried to calmly bring reality into focus.

I finally got fed up and told him that he was blaming me for something
that was between him and Joe and that he was the one who was abusing me
with his accusations and demands. I also said that he has had a
troubled relationship with Joe and what should I have done if I had
suggested he join us and Joe had said no.

Then he stopped writing.

So, my questions are:

Should I have told him that I was concerned because he was acting
irrationally and asked if he needed to have his meds checked, or ask if
he was taking them? (There was a similar incident when I did this and he
became more angry. It turned out that his meds were okay and he was on
them.)

Should I have just said I'm sorry you feel this way and not engaged in
any dialogue about it?

Should I have not told him that I felt he was being unfair and abusive
to me? If he were not bipolar, I would not hesitate in telling him this.
But if he's not in control of his behavior, am I expecting too much of
him?

And finally, if Joe had asked me if I wanted to include Fred, I probably
would have said no, as he often upsets my mother, who is pretty old and
frail and would rather not see him. I didn't tell this to Fred, but
should I have?

Thanks for any comments.

Kelly
HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥
2006-07-18 13:11:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelly
Should I have not told him that I felt he was being unfair and abusive
to me? If he were not bipolar, I would not hesitate in telling him this.
But if he's not in control of his behavior, am I expecting too much of
him?
You should tell him the truth of how you feel. He might be upset. We
tend to get upset. After he knows the truth, then give him some time
(days/weeks) to let his emotions run as they will. Avoid discussing
the situation if you can until time has passed. Then open calm
discussion again. He will see your stable consistent view. Beepers
tend to blurt out words in times of high emotion that most people feel
a touch of. We are often sorry that we said anything. Give him the
opportunity and time for his feelings to settle down and don't make
him feel he must stick with something he said while angry.

I hope this helps.

Be well,

HoP

The preceding message represents personal opinions
and/or advice that may prove incorrect or harmful. But then maybe not.
Feel free to disregard.

------- Words have no Warranty ------
------- No View without Merit ------
..
Kelly
2006-07-18 17:31:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by HoPpeR© trading at 1492¥
Post by Kelly
Should I have not told him that I felt he was being unfair and abusive
to me? If he were not bipolar, I would not hesitate in telling him this.
But if he's not in control of his behavior, am I expecting too much of
him?
You should tell him the truth of how you feel. He might be upset. We
tend to get upset. After he knows the truth, then give him some time
(days/weeks) to let his emotions run as they will. Avoid discussing
the situation if you can until time has passed. Then open calm
discussion again. He will see your stable consistent view. Beepers
tend to blurt out words in times of high emotion that most people feel
a touch of. We are often sorry that we said anything. Give him the
opportunity and time for his feelings to settle down and don't make
him feel he must stick with something he said while angry.
I hope this helps.
Thanks very much for your reply. He seems to have calmed down a lot
since yesterday.
I appreciate your help.

Kelly
Otenkiya
2006-07-18 16:52:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelly
I have some ethical questions about the correct thing to do in relation
to a bipolar relative.
<snipped for length>
Post by Kelly
Should I have told him that I was concerned because he was acting
irrationally and asked if he needed to have his meds checked, or ask if
he was taking them? (There was a similar incident when I did this and he
became more angry. It turned out that his meds were okay and he was on
them.)
IMHO, it's always a good idea to ask, especially if he has issues with
being non med-compliant. On the other hand, not every outburst of anger
is the harbinger of a manic episode. If you're concerned, then ask
away. However, I can't tell you what you *should* have done, because
I'm not qualified to make value judgments.
Post by Kelly
Should I have just said I'm sorry you feel this way and not engaged in
any dialogue about it?
Personally, I think the dialogue is good...you now know exactly how Fred
feels, and that is always helpful. Plus, it gave you the opportunity to
calm him down, and 'bring reality into focus', as you said. Again, I
can't say what you should have done, because what you did is what you did.
Post by Kelly
Should I have not told him that I felt he was being unfair and abusive
to me? If he were not bipolar, I would not hesitate in telling him this.
But if he's not in control of his behavior, am I expecting too much of
him?
If you think he's being unfair and abusive, tell him so. Being bipolar
is no excuse for being an ass...I've been an ass many times during my
manic episodes, and I always feel compelled to apologise for it
afterwards because, while I may not have been quite in control, I still
may have hurt another person.
Post by Kelly
And finally, if Joe had asked me if I wanted to include Fred, I probably
would have said no, as he often upsets my mother, who is pretty old and
frail and would rather not see him. I didn't tell this to Fred, but
should I have?
Now *that* would have opened up a whole new can of worms. Personally, I
would have told him.

You certainly do have a lot of 'shoulds' in your questions. :-) People
on this newsgroup cannot tell you what you 'should' do...at best, we can
only tell you what we would do in a similar situation. You are to be
commended for your concern about your bipolar relative...just remember
that, while you may have to walk on the proverbial eggshells around him
at times, that he is a person too. Be patient with him.
--
Erica

"Curiosity is the very basis of education and if you tell me that
curiosity killed the cat, I say only the cat died nobly."

- Arnold Edinborough

("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' http://yoichinotori.livejournal.com
Kelly
2006-07-21 01:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Otenkiya
Post by Kelly
I have some ethical questions about the correct thing to do in relation
to a bipolar relative.
<snipped for length>
Post by Kelly
Should I have told him that I was concerned because he was acting
irrationally and asked if he needed to have his meds checked, or ask if
he was taking them? (There was a similar incident when I did this and he
became more angry. It turned out that his meds were okay and he was on
them.)
IMHO, it's always a good idea to ask, especially if he has issues with
being non med-compliant. On the other hand, not every outburst of anger
is the harbinger of a manic episode. If you're concerned, then ask
away. However, I can't tell you what you *should* have done, because
I'm not qualified to make value judgments.
Post by Kelly
Should I have just said I'm sorry you feel this way and not engaged in
any dialogue about it?
Personally, I think the dialogue is good...you now know exactly how Fred
feels, and that is always helpful. Plus, it gave you the opportunity to
calm him down, and 'bring reality into focus', as you said. Again, I
can't say what you should have done, because what you did is what you did.
Post by Kelly
Should I have not told him that I felt he was being unfair and abusive
to me? If he were not bipolar, I would not hesitate in telling him this.
But if he's not in control of his behavior, am I expecting too much of
him?
If you think he's being unfair and abusive, tell him so. Being bipolar
is no excuse for being an ass...I've been an ass many times during my
manic episodes, and I always feel compelled to apologise for it
afterwards because, while I may not have been quite in control, I still
may have hurt another person.
Post by Kelly
And finally, if Joe had asked me if I wanted to include Fred, I probably
would have said no, as he often upsets my mother, who is pretty old and
frail and would rather not see him. I didn't tell this to Fred, but
should I have?
Now *that* would have opened up a whole new can of worms. Personally, I
would have told him.
You certainly do have a lot of 'shoulds' in your questions. :-) People
on this newsgroup cannot tell you what you 'should' do...at best, we can
only tell you what we would do in a similar situation. You are to be
commended for your concern about your bipolar relative...just remember
that, while you may have to walk on the proverbial eggshells around him
at times, that he is a person too. Be patient with him.
Hi Erica,

Thank you very much for your reply.

Although it looked like my relative and I were starting to communicate
in a positive way, things broke down and our email exchange did not end
amicably.

Your reply and Hop's were very helpful and I don't feel as if I made
things worse by expressing my feelings.

Kelly
Celtic ferret
2006-07-22 00:46:16 UTC
Permalink
You've done what you should do. You aren't in charge of Joe and who he
wants to see, or Fred and his feelings. Unless he's off his meds,
which you can't control either. you're done. Get on with your own
life.

In Al Anon they say insanity is applying the same solution to a problem
and expecting a different outcome.

KG
Post by Kelly
I have some ethical questions about the correct thing to do in relation
to a bipolar relative.
A relative of mine, let's call him Fred, who lives in my town, was
hospitalized for a manic episode about two years ago. Since then he has
done well on medication, re-established friendships and his marriage,
and resumed a professional career.
Recently, another relative, let's call him Joe, visited my town and made
arrangements to get together with me and my mother. A few days later,
Fred sent me an angry email accusing me of deliberately excluding him
not only from dinner with Joe and my mother but from past family events.
I emailed back and told him that I was sorry he felt left out, but Joe
was the one who had set things up and he should talk to Joe about it.
Fred then wrote that he believed I was in a position to include him at
family gatherings and in the future I should do so. (I don't know why he
thinks this, maybe because I usually make reservations, but that's no
reason.) The letter also accused me of never doing anything for him when
he did x, y and z for me.
I emailed Fred again telling him that I didn't feel it was my place to
tell someone who to invite where, that he was putting me in the middle
of his relationships with other people and it wasn't fair. I also told
him that his accusations were unfair and untrue and gave specific
examples of x, y and z I have done for him.
A few more emails were exchanged in which Fred was angry and insistent
and I tried to calmly bring reality into focus.
I finally got fed up and told him that he was blaming me for something
that was between him and Joe and that he was the one who was abusing me
with his accusations and demands. I also said that he has had a
troubled relationship with Joe and what should I have done if I had
suggested he join us and Joe had said no.
Then he stopped writing.
Should I have told him that I was concerned because he was acting
irrationally and asked if he needed to have his meds checked, or ask if
he was taking them? (There was a similar incident when I did this and he
became more angry. It turned out that his meds were okay and he was on
them.)
Should I have just said I'm sorry you feel this way and not engaged in
any dialogue about it?
Should I have not told him that I felt he was being unfair and abusive
to me? If he were not bipolar, I would not hesitate in telling him this.
But if he's not in control of his behavior, am I expecting too much of
him?
And finally, if Joe had asked me if I wanted to include Fred, I probably
would have said no, as he often upsets my mother, who is pretty old and
frail and would rather not see him. I didn't tell this to Fred, but
should I have?
Thanks for any comments.
Kelly
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